The Signpost Perspective: The Fourth Turning

Many in the church feel that something ominous is about to happen; that some end-time related event might happen soon.  The Signpost interpretation of the Bible of course gives us an articulation of this ominous something.  In addition, many in the secular circles of this nation feel that we are not out of the woods yet.  Some believe there is another financial crash coming bigger than the one in 2008.  And of course politically the international scene seems to be spinning out of control.

To that end, The Fourth Turning: An American Prophecy by William Strauss and Neil Howe, is a remarkable secular study of history and sociology showing a definite repeating pattern in history.  The book articulates future American history that may remind some of Daniel Revisited which does so for end-time Bible prophecy.  Strauss and Howe have uncovered and defined a rhythm in history and have applied it specifically to American history.

Front Cover of The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe.  It arrives at a remarkable prophecy for this nation, derived back in the 1990s.

Front Cover of The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe. It arrives at a remarkable prophecy for this nation, derived back in the 1990s.

An old saying is that history repeats itself.  More exactly this book shows that every four generations, or roughly eighty years, history does indeed repeat itself.  There are four seasons in this cycle of history, where each season is roughly twenty years, the time for another generation to beget another generation.  Each season is called a “Turning”.  There is a winter of hardship where the long-standing institutions and ways are challenged and a new way emerges at the end of the twenty years.  There is a spring (the First Turning) where for twenty years following the end of the winter of crisis, society supports the new ways.  There is enthusiasm.  Then there is a twenty-year summer (the Second Turning) where some are dissatisfied and think there needs to be change.  After that is autumn (the Third Turning) where problems with the current ways begin to appear.  This leads to a new winter (the Fourth Turning) – a time of the next crisis that covers another twenty years.

Here in the United States, the last full winter was 1929-1949 with the Depression and World War II.  The last spring was 1949-1968 where the fifties and early sixties are remembered as the last time in American history where things seemed relatively stable.  But then summer arrived from 1968-1987 when the nation’s society seemed to explode.  The year 1968 saw the Chicago riots, L.A. riots, the murders of King and Kennedy, and the protests against the Vietnam War which all showed that many wanted change and that our nation was changing.  Watergate only added to the distrust of government.  The last autumn was 1987-2008 where there seemed to be financial bubble after bubble belying the problems with the banking system and manipulation of the markets.  We are now in a new winter, a new Fourth Turning, having started in 2008 with the great financial crisis.

In the Figure below I show graphically the three winters that the United States has endured and compare them against our current timeline and our current winter.  Every Fourth Turning follows the same pattern:

– First there is some event that reveals that there are imbalances or points of grievance and that the current modus operandi will not last.

– Second, there is the climax during those twenty years which decides what new direction the country will take.  Will the problems of the sixty years preceding it continue, or will they be truly remedied in a newly changed society?

– Finally there is an event confirming that the new order – whatever it is – has taken hold and is in force.  At this point the new spring, the new First Turning, begins.

– And quite frequently, the seeds of the next Fourth Turning are planted with the resolution of the current one.

The four Fourth Turnings of American history laid out parallel to each other.  According to the study the next thirteen years will see great hardship on par with past Fourth Turnings.

The four Fourth Turnings of American history laid out parallel to each other. According to the study the next thirteen years will see great hardship on par with past Fourth Turnings.

The first Fourth Turning of the United States was the Revolutionary War period.  Taxes imposed on the colonies by the English crown culminated with the Tea Act of 1774.  That was the event that showed increasing tyranny and taxation of England and made the American colonies finally react.  It was the Tea Act that resulted in the Boston Tea Party in December 1774.  The climax of that first winter was the war itself which lasted from 1775 to 1781.  Would the colonies remain colonies or break away and form a new nation?

After the war there was the Constitutional Convention which formed the United States government.  The last event was the Whiskey Rebellion.  It tested the new government’s authority to lay its own taxes.  From the Tea Act showing a change was needed to the Whiskey Rebellion testing that change, there were roughly twenty years.  The seeds for the next winter were planted however.  Slavery was not abolished altogether but was contained and tolerated.

The second Fourth Turning, or winter, was the Civil War period starting almost sixty years after the end of the last winter.  As the nation expanded, the ongoing argument was whether the new states and territories continue slavery as in the southern states, or abolish slavery as in the northern states.  It all came to a head with the Compromise of 1850.  The disposition of many states, territories and regions towards slavery was decided with that act.  However, there was equal dissatisfaction on both sides.  The Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 and the Dred Scott decision of 1857 saying that free or slave Africans could not be U.S. citizens, added to the fire.  The Civil War itself decided the issue of whether slavery would continue or finally be abolished.

After the war, three amendments to the constitution were ratified.  The thirteenth abolished slavery, the fourteenth stated that all slaves are citizens, and the fifteenth said former slaves could vote.  That last amendment was ratified in 1870, twenty years after the Compromise of 1850.  The seeds planted for the next winter sixty years in the future were planted by Abraham Lincoln, who, having saved the Union, used methods that evil men would use to subvert this nation and its freedoms.  These included the creation of paper money, and the military draft.

The third Fourth Turning was the Depression and World War II.  Where the banker elites had no power at the start of the nation in the 1780s, they gained power through charging interest on the thousands of companies and projects built in this nation over the nineteenth century.  By 1913 they pushed for the creation of the Federal Reserve.  The Fed caused the Depression, by making money too available in the 1920s and then tightening the belt in the early 1930s.  The Crash of 1929 showed there was a problem and that excesses in markets had to be trimmed.  The government in conjunction with the Fed only made the Depression long and deep.

(Hardly anyone has heard of the Depression of 1921.  Why?  Because in 1921 President Warren G. Harding being the conservative he was, refused to do anything about it.  And the market fixed itself.)

It was Central Bankers gaining power across the world that funded World War II.  And that was the climax.  What was decided?  Would the power of central banking be removed?  No.  But now the United States instead of Britain would be the new world military and banking power.  The problem of growing elite power was not fixed but was preserved.  Government continued to grow as did the reach of the banking system.  By not “fixing” the problem, that was the seed for the next winter sixty years after that.  The confirming moment was the start of NATO, where the United States took the position as leader of the Free World.  The U.S. dollar was almost as good as gold and the Fed and the U.S. government were now free to manipulate markets, gold and the dollar.

So here we are at the start of the fourth and latest Fourth Turning of the United States.  The Fourth Turning, published in 1997 has this to say about our time:

“Sometime around the year 2005, perhaps a few years before or after, America will enter the Fourth Turning.”

With the repeal of Glass-Steagal in 1998, the creation of CDOs and CDSs, and the corruption of the system where the regulations were in place but enforcement looked away, derivatives were created.  The effect of derivatives and the loss of Glass-Steagal were to take other peoples’ money, bet on it, and spread the risk of loss among millions of people.  This of course was absolutely evil and resulted in 2008 in the impoverishment of tens of millions of Americans.  The Financial Crisis of 2008 was the event showing that something was wrong; that the excesses and trends of the last century had come to a head; that the financial elites were out of control.

What is next for us if history teaches us anything is the coming crisis and resolution.  American society by and large has been heading away from God.  A hundred years ago with the creation of the Fed and income taxes, government was able to replace God in “taking care” of people and the people gave their consent.

What will happen in this current crisis time?  Will America be brought back to God or will we continue to wander and our society become more evil?  If Christ were to tarry another several decades I might think that it was equal to a coin toss in outcome.  However, God’s Word tells us the larger trend.  In Matthew 24 Christ said that everything that was to happen at the end – from the warning of being deceived (i.e. the First Signpost starting in 1979) through to His coming would be witnessed by one single generation.  If this is interpreted correctly, Christ would have to come sometime toward the end of our current winter or maybe the decade following it.  If this is the case, the Bible also tells us that He will rule the all the nations (including the U.S.) with an iron rod.  Therefore the problems with this nation (and all of the nations!) would be resolved.  The question is how would this be resolved?  Is God going to have to resort to judgment to beckon that we return to Him?  Will He do this before His Son returns?

Since all other past winters had a major war it would seem the United States might see one more final great battle prior to Christ’s return, and one that would even be on our own soil.  The Signposts and the Tribulation don’t need to wait for America to proceed.  In fact for the Second Signpost to proceed might require our nation to be crippled in some way to prevent our nation from stopping or doing anything more in the Middle East.  Maybe this event to occur during this current winter would be the final nail in the coffin allowing Iran to run out, taking away any fear their leadership might have of being stopped.

Finally, I am hoping that the end event of this winter, this Fourth Turning, proving that things have changed, would be the return of Christ Himself!

In conclusion, The Fourth Turning, a secular study, shows that America is headed for some hard times on par with the Civil War, and the Depression.  And this is to occur during the end times called out by Signpost theory.  The secular Fourth Turning therefore joins Daniel Revisited in supporting the idea that Americans will have much hardship to go through before any pre-Tribulation rapture, if indeed it really is pre-Trib.

Perhaps before this current winter season is over, there will be a new Great Revival for America.  If it does, I believe it will most likely be accompanied by great judgment.  Prepare spiritually and materially, and of course, watch.



Categories: America in the End Times, Book Review, The Four Signposts, The Signpost Perspective

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28 replies

  1. Fascinating read, Mark!

    Indeed, human history does repeat itself for better or worse.

    O’Reilly said this week on one of his shows that unless this nation changes drastic financial course (he was speaking on the national debt) our economy will collapse upon itself spiraling us into third world status within 10 years!

    I do not see how the world system can go much beyond 2035, frankly.

    Interestingly, according to various sources most believe that Christ was born in the Fall of 4 B.C. and likely was crucified in the Spring, 30 A.D. If these dates are true and according to Jewish reckoning Christ was born 4000 years after the creation of Adam and God has decreed 6000 years for fallen mankind…we are not far from the final seven years of this fallen age and the return of the rightful King!

    Exciting to think that I could be living in the generation that sees the return of the rightful King!

    Blessings!

  2. Amen, good4u1.
    I believe, though, that there is much evidence to show that Jesus died and resurrected 4,000 years after the Fall. In which case Hosea is exact: on the third day He will revive us (i.e. AD 2030 is really AD 2000). May the Lord always guide your preparations.

  3. Sounds like you are thinking of a Kondratief’s wInter on the horizon for the USA? I tend to agree with your thesis, Even Martin Armstrong has identified 2015.75 as a time when there will be a time of great upheaval in sovereign debt here as per his theory of the Business Cycle based on a Pi of 8.314. The prophet Daniel has many interesting things to say about your theory of Iran and its signpost, Logically, the Iranian kingdom of chapter 8 – Can’t happen until after the fall of the Daniels Iron Kingdom (Rome) of Chapter 7 which I tend to believe is set to happen after 2015.75 according to the 1260 day prophecy of chapter 7. I personally believe the time period for this prophecy goes from (755/756 Ad -2015.75 Ad) as delineated by the great theologian Adam Clarke who died in 1832. Logically Mark, Rome should end their kingdom this fall and Iran should rise to power after that. The Late David Flynn said there are many valid points to Isaac Newton’s Study of the 1260 days prophecy, and even though Newton used the wrong starting point for the 1260 days ( i.e. 800 Ad with the instatement of Charlemagne, which would put the end date about 2060), the application of the prophecy was accurate nonetheless. I believe David Flynn was correct in his assertion about the application being correct (although he also used the wrong dates, he said 753 Ad was the starting point which would have put the end date at 2013). If you look back at the Commentary of Adam Clarke (who died in 1832). He says that the Correct date for the starting of the 1260 days was 755 to 756AD, with the Surrender of Aristolphus of Italy to Pepin king of France. Pepin took over the Ravenna of Italy and invested the Pope of Rome with temporal power at that time. (interestingly enough this is even the date the Roman Catholic Church has used as a starting point for their temporal rule). If that is historically accurate and the correct starting point, then 1260 days/years later would be 2015 to 2016 AD, and the times of the Gentiles Mentioned in Daniel 7 would literally be fulfilled this year or next year depending on where you place the starting date. Since the Pope is set to meet with the United Nations on Sept 25th of this year, I suspect that we may see something none of us have expected after that (I have my own opinions as to what that event will be) and I believe it will lead to the ushering in of the times of the end after that.
    I know some members of your regular audience are not very open minded (and they should not bother replying to me on this) to differing interpretations of the scriptures than their own -because they think they already have it all figured out, but I thought I would pay one last visit to your blog and post this for you to think about – might provide some food for thought and cause you to see that in order for Daniel 8 to Happen – Logically Daniel 7 Has to be completed first. As for Financial Collapse in 2015, what better way to usher in Change than with a complete reset of the monetary and political structure.

  4. Whether or not Watcher1 indeed visits this blog again, I still feel the need to address my “audience” and tell them I disagree with him on two major points.
    First, my audience is probably the most open-minded segment of the Church today – they are willing to step out of what is comfortable, take the red pill, and learn truth that will most likely show eighteen centuries of thought as wrong and allow them to be prepared for the hard times to come very soon.
    Second, he is thinking linearly rather than in the way the Bible is written which is 3-dimensional where many passages talk about the same things that will occur at the same time, but from different perspectives.
    One can get all wrapped up thinking he has figured something out but miss the important picture.

  5. Fascinating as always Mark. How do you see the frenzy around this September fitting into the picture? We seem to have Shemitah, jubilee, blood moons, jade helm, hadron collider, 70th UN assembly (to mention just a few), all being talked about as they are all seemingly converging as if something very big might be about to happen. Do you think these guys are getting over excited? I would be interested in your view.

  6. Hi Springfielder,
    I do believe something may very well happen September 13 to the U.S., as was written about in The Harbinger. It would be an event commensurate with the winter, the Fourth Turning that we are currently in. One of our readers, Good4u1, thinks the Second Signpost will likely happen after September 13 and I am tending to agree. A September 13 event might be what limits us in any more action against Iran.

  7. So interesting, thank you. But so hard to know how much to say to other people, when most people think you’ve lost the plot!

  8. Oh, this Shemittah thing…I’m beginning to think there is so much hype like the same thing for the Mayan 2012 calendar frenzy that we are becoming chicken littles. We need to be careful here and not get ahead of ourselves or God. Let us not put too much stock into what God ordained for His people, Israel, and transfer it to ourselves. What he commanded for Israel may not in fact be applicable to us. Having said this; however, it is always wise to pay attention to events to see how it may impact prophetic events long-term. But will the “this is that” spoken by the biblical prophets happen on September 13, 2015…I just don’t see it right now.

    But as always, God knows best and He has the final say and we are to remain teachable before him.

    Blessings!

    P.S. In case you are wondering…I did read, “The Harbinger” compelling novel for sure!

  9. Interesting you too are looking at cycles Mark. You may be interested to know I needed to summarise my material as a result of readers’ queries (see http://richards-watch.org/2015/05/02/thank-you-readers-for-enabling-new-discoveries-and-hubs/ ) I can only cover this deep topic ever so briefly:

    Your post is most informative but, imho, a better grasp may be obtained with 40-year biblical cycles which, according to Eric Hadik (http://40yearcycle.com/pages/crash-cycles/), fit the history of US financial crashes as well as current, deepening Euro crisis.

    Regarding rabbi Cahn, a writer on prophecy claimed that if his suppositions were sound then economists would be aware. He didn’t have the courtesy of replying to my pointing out Hadik’s technical forecasting confirms Cahn’s theories. (Also my tag http://richards-watch.org/tag/cahn/ refers.)

  10. I think it is important to separate out the Bible’s clear information of how God’s calendar runs, and Jonathan Cahn’s inspired (but, of course, still at least VERY slightly unconfirmed) connection to this cycle. The Shemitah cycle is uncontested scriptural truth. That the U.S.’s fate is inextricably caught up in it is still up for debate, though, personally, I find the evidence to be overwhelming that Cahn’s sense of biblical pattern recognition is dead on. We have to be careful when we say stuff like “I don’t know about the Shemitah thing” that people understand that we are not contesting God’s calender based upon its application to the fate of the United States (which would smack of replacement theology).

    The Shemitah cycle is simply how God’s calendar runs. It is thoroughly biblical. All biblical events run on this timetable. For instance, the Babylonian captivity lasted 70 years, and the prophets of God knew that it would, because the people failed to observe the sabbath year for 70 consecutive cycles. All the “weeks of years” in Daniel are, naturally, just Shemitah cycles. The final week of Daniel is 7 years. It stands to reason that those notorious final 7 years before the return of Yeshua…are simply a Shemitah cycle. Therefore, that Shemitah cycle cannot begin at just any random time. It must begin at the start of a normal cycle some year on God’s calendar. All events in the Bible always have done so, and always will.

    However, whether the U.S. of A. is held to this standard/going to be completely judged this year fully or partially, etc, is still up for debate. It is important to note that whether or not we see some major judgement come down on the United States in the coming year, that has no bearing on the flawless timetable God has set up in scripture. Seven year cycles are what it is all about, and seven year cycles = Shemitah cycles.

  11. I need to clarify something here and please do not misunderstand me…I did not say the Shemittah cycle was NOT biblical truth, or that God does not have set calendars in heaven. But I am questioning whether it applies to gentile nations such as the USA. Remember, the commandment was given to Israel, God’s people, and they disobeyed his commandment to them. Therefore, God put them into exile as a result so the land could have its Sabboth. Let’s not overlook what is straightforward here and the truest meaning of God’s Word.

    Is there a direct correlation to gentile nations such as the USA and the Shemittah cycle given to Israel? I for one cannot answer this question and I don’t think anyone else can which includes Author-Rabbi Jonathan Cahn.

    I also do NOT believe in replacement theology and my expression of “The Shemittah thing” was how many Christians tend to personalize what was in fact, originally meant for the House of Israel. You may be one of those posters, Taryn Daily. It does not mean; however, that we cannot learn from the story of the Shemittah and how it can apply to our own personal lives to pursue holiness before God. But certainly Christians should not live in terrible dread of some unknown judgment of God on Elul 29. That would clearly be unscriptural, imo.

    Blessings!

  12. Regarding cycles and the shemitah years. if i recall right Cahn says the current 7 year shemitah ends this September and right after that is the great Shemitah year also known as the Jubilee year. If God is using the shemitah like recent past to either bless or as shown recently as a time of judgment, correction etc… makes me wonder greatly what the great Shemitah year will bring… I just wish the body of Christ as a whole would have better understanding (includes me of course) instead so many theories and ideas… which makes me think alot of what Paul said.. If the same Spirit who raised Christ from the dead lives in me…. if this is true then why is it we are all over the board on what is happening??? just saying and wondering…
    i have been in deep prayer and studying praying for understanding and wisdom… troubles me we are all over the map on so much and even looking at Iran, Turkey etc as the beast that is formed or forming from which the son of perdition comes … there is so little common agreement.
    another thing that is niggling my mind is regarding the Son of Perdition the scriptures in various places use a greek word Naos which from what i can understand means the church… and the writings of Paul saying the Son of Perdition takes his seat in the Naos or Temple of God .. as in the professing believers … then the apostasy from which this man rises and takes his seat is deeper than we think… if the son of perdition rises from within an apostate church and is also from the beast kingdoms of islam… what are we looking at??? If we are in the last cycle before Christ’s return i think we need to find this answer… imho

  13. @Good4You

    I should have done a better job at clarifying that when I used your phrase “the Shemitah thing” I was not intending to imply that you yourself were at all guilty of replacement theology. I lurk on all the same forums as you, Good4You, and though I have less to say, I value your thoughtful comments very much, and often wish we were neighbors, because I also get pretty lonely with my prophecy interests. 🙂

    I was using your phrase as a jumping off point to somewhat change the subject. My point is basically just that because of Cahn’s books, in many American minds, “the Shemitah thing” will be proved/disproved this year, and that, in their minds, if America does not see the judgment that Cahn predicts/alludes to, “the Shemitah thing” will have been proven false.

    This is probably because these Christians do not study prophecy much. So I’m just pointing out that we who do study prophecy need to make clear to our Christian friends that “the Shemitah thing” is much much bigger than “The Harbinger.” While I find Cahn’s theory compelling, I am still duty bound to let others know that whether his American connection pans out or not, his theory is grounded in strong biblical truth. That’s all. This whole point that I make is a bit of a change of subject from what you, Good4You, expressed in your post, but I did use your phrase as a jumping off point.

  14. @Good4You

    So, in short, I was pointing out how your phrase could be misunderstood by people who are more on the periphery of prophecy. I was not, however, thinking that you misunderstood anything.

  15. @Good4You

    In regards to your point about the calendar given to the house of Israel, I have many complicated and mixed up feelings, LOL. I am personally a wild olive branch. However, I do think that once the branch is grafted in, it’s not a bad thing to learn the ways of our God. This is not a requirement for salvation, of course, but comes from a longing to live closer to His heart.

    He may have given a certain calendar to the house of Israel, but it is, ultimately, His calendar. Since He is my God, then I’d like to be aware of His navigation system. The Feasts of the Lord are the Lord’s scheduled, divine appointments. Ergo, I’d like to know more about them. His rhythms are not charted out on our Roman calendar. So I value His calendar. I do not do so unto salvation; I am saved by grace through faith in the death and resurrection of Yeshua.

    I have started observing the Feasts of the Lord this year, all doctrine aside and…I have to say, doing so has blessed myself and my family. I don’t intend to abolish Christmas/Easter or anything, but I’ve definitely moaned less about the pagan elements creeping into these festivals, because they were born from pagan festivals in the first place, haha! The pagans haven’t really moved in on Yom Kippur or Sukkot or Pesach yet, so these times are still holy, have always been holy, and always will be.

    The Bible indicates that all God’s people will celebrate these feasts and the Sabbath in the Kingdom to come. Why would God care about them, then not care about them, then care about them again? That does not add up. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

    The early apostles agreed, correctly of course, that Gentiles coming to worship with Jewish believers in Yeshua when they met on in synagogues on Shabbat didn’t need to observe Jewish laws in order to be saved. But there are clear laws that apply only to Jews, and then there are the feasts of the Lord, which all the early apostles celebrated. I’d like to infer that they also helped their “Gentile” brothers and sisters to learn about His Feasts and celebrate them, to partake of the Lord’s divine appointed times together. This is not “legalism” but shared knowledge/blessings of His times and seasons. Do we HAVE to do this? No. Do I WANT to? Yes. It is no burden, but a joy.

    I also believe that if this movement of observing the Feasts of the Lord is of the Holy Spirit, it will serve three important purposes. 1. To bless the house of Israel by praying for them during these holy times. Remember, on the Day of Atonement, all Israel made sacrifices and gave prayers for the salvation of all humanity for many centuries. We who have embraced Israel’s-and the world’s Messiah can choose to return the favor, and pray for their realization that Yeshua is the Messiah, and He is God. 2. In honoring the Feasts of the Lord, we are setting ourselves apart from the anti semitic elements creeping into the church. We are also showing anti semites all over the world that we do not fear them, that we stand unapologetically with Israel. 3. In joyfully proclaiming the Messiah in the Feasts, we are perhaps very effectively provoking the house of Israel to jealousy/curiosity.

  16. Taryn,

    What do you mean you do not have much to say and just a lurker…I beg to differ! LOL

    Yes, communicating in “text” land is very different than person-to-person and “lost in translation” is always a problem.

    Prophecy students are truly the “odd ducks” of the larger church body, unfortunately. And I, for one, am glad there are on-line communities for believers like us who can wrestle with the prophetic Word of God. Occasionally, I will attend a prophecy conference when I hear of them locally which is rare, and in fact, a first ever national prophecy conference will be held in my hometown later this fall. So excited about that and to be with fellow “odd duckers”! LOL

    My larger point I guess on Cahn’s theory is we do have to be real careful about date-setting for prophetic events relating to God’s Word. I think Cahn’s novel was fascinating information to be thoughtfully considered and to be prudent watchers for God’s hand in events as we verify in His Word. Ironically, Elul 29 is the second Sunday in September. IF Cahn’s theory fails, it will again discredit biblical prophecy not only in the eyes of the Church, but the larger skeptical, unbelieving world. For me, a correlation is a proven pattern over and over and over again without fail. Truly, time will tell. I am hoping my Bible study leader will discuss this topic in our ‘contemporary issues’ that day since he also has read the book.

    I agree that the Shemittah is grounded in God’s truth as a spiritual principle. But for unbelievers or even the Church at large, that point may become lost in “something bad may happen, but I don’t know what.” You need to just continue to do what God asks of you where you are, pay attention, but let God take care of the rest.

  17. Taryn,

    Part II

    I understand your interest in the Hebrew Roots Movement. I attended one of the weekend conferences sponsored by one of the local HRM churches here in 2010. Mainly because Joel Richardson was a guest speaker during the weekend. But I got to hear Mark Blitz who discovered the blood-moon theory and another high light was to hear a Messianic Orthodox Rabbi give a teaching session, so interesting! The room was absolutely packed to hear what he said on Scripture. I was thinking this is what it might have been like to be in the same room to hear the Master Himself teach on Scripture. Such a treat!

    Constantine of the early church did a terrible thing in church history after he converted to Christianity. He totally abolished all Jewish understanding and tradition within the early church! This has had devastating consequences ever since for the church because we have lost our Jewish connection and therefore corporate memory to understanding all of Scripture, including prophetic Scripture. It was nothing short of a travesty.

    This was brought home to me in vivid fashion after I read the book, “The Last Shofar” by Joseph Leonard and Donald Zoller. This book was an invaluable book in understanding the rich background of Jewish understanding of prophetic Scripture and why the Church has so much trouble comprehending prophetic Scripture. A very good read. The authors go into great detail about the Fall Feasts in particular and how God actually calculates time which has to do with the new moon observances and the ripening of barley in Jerusalem. No wonder Constantine abolished it, that section is really technical to say the least. I still am challenged by it.

    I do agree with your interest in the Hebrew Roots Movement, it has much to offer the church as long as we understand to not get caught up in legalism and work-righteousness as the Jews do today, but only by faith in Christ alone do we obtain the forgiving grace of God which is the power unto salvation.

    Blessings!

  18. Yeah, I’ve read The Last Shofar, loved it! I’ve watched dozens upon dozens of Biltz’s sermons (blood moons are the least interesting thing he has to say, in my opinion, and he is quite the Bible scholar). The Last Shofar is a streamlined version of what he has to say. His website, elshaddiaministries, has every sermon he’s given from about the past 10 years in the archives, for free.

    I totally agree that we need to be so very careful about date setting. That being said, I find this kind of thing to be a little different than date setting. I think it’s merely watching the year unfold through more informed eyes, noting special dates when He has moved in the past, etc. Our American date setters of the last 30 years or so have been largely ignoring God’s calendar. There aren’t many scholars in America who realize that the tribulation is obviously on a Shemitah cycle. This means that, while it can begin at the start of any Shemitah cycle, and one should never set dates, it certainly won’t start at just some random time in any year, in the middle of a cycle.

    About 3 years ago, after spending plenty of years (even my childhood) studying the not so accurate prophecy information that is floating around out there, I hit my knees and prayed perhaps the most fervent prayer of my adult life. I yelled to God that none of this prophecy stuff added up or made any sense, and my 15 plus years of armchair study had done me no good. I knew we were in desperate times, but didn’t know what to do or how to help or how to articulate my faith through prophecy, because it was all wrong. I was already not a pre-trib believer at that time, but the rest of it was completely muddled in my brain. God answered by leading me to Walid and Joel’s work within a few weeks of my praying this.

    I feel strongly that time is so short, regardless. It is time to spread the gospel in the middle east. Lord knows, those people deserve to hear it. They often seem to care so much more about God than we Americans. They ought to have an army of us spreading the gospel through their lands.

  19. good4u1 @ ‘…What he commanded for Israel may not in fact be applicable to us.’ (21 June) …But I am questioning whether it applies to gentile nations such as the USA. (23 June)

    Had it not been for a Polish Jew Haym Salomon bankrupting himself to bankroll your nation at its birth then we Brits would may still be running the show. (Latter part of my http://wp.me/p1Y1yB-69O refers)

    That’s one reason why the Lord may be applying scripture to US. The other, is very likely to be US direct involvement, influence and messing around the Jew’s own national modern state and land.

  20. PS Sorry for typos but my inputting is very slowly working in fits and starts so hard to make corrections. Having to do via WPress’ Reader as Mark’s site rarely allows me to comment direct even though I’m on WP too.

  21. Richard,
    Wordpress does leave a lot to be desired on this end too. I do catch some of the more obvious typos of commenters and fix.

  22. Wondering if you anticipating Greece to leave…. Or even Turkey to become involved in restoring their financial health. Maybe something to watch.

  23. Richard,

    In spite of your “across the pond” communication difficulties, I do understand your point about a judgment of God coming for my nation, America. In fact, I am in total agreement with you! We have behaved arrogantly and have rejected the God of heaven as the One to whom all allegiance is due and our time of protection is nearly over for judgment fast approaches. But I am more inclined to see it as Mark’s Second signpost as that event than a specific date of Elul 29. That is my humble opinion. However, I am not a betting woman and certainly open to see how holy God manifest’s His will to fulfill His purposes in this matter even if it is on Elul 29. I’ll be watching and I bet so will you!

    I am ashamed of my current President’s behavior toward Israel, the apple of God’s eye. Another reason why I hope to do my part and economically support Israel with my tourist dollars this fall. I am going with Joel Richardson and the WND Israel tour which will be my first trip overseas. The Israeli tourist and travel company has been nothing short of exceptional in its service to its clients in every way.

    I think we are in more of agreement than opposite sides here.

    Blessings!

  24. Taryn,

    You bring up a good point that the 70th Week of Daniel will indeed be a Shemittah cycle. I never thought of it that way, but that specific prophetic week is when again God Himself will deal directly with His people Israel. Right now he deals with them indirectly, but not so during that specific Shemittah cycle. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Blessings!

  25. Gary,
    I’ve been thinking about that, actually. Don’t know yet.

  26. Good4u1-

    I didn’t realize you were a chick! Even better; now we can share everything! LOL. Seriously, though, how rare it is to find another woman to talk to about prophecy?? I learned a while ago that it just makes the guys uncomfortable when I chime in. (Especially when they’re talking about Rome and I’m talking about a Caliphate, haha.) It’s so ridiculously frustrating and lonely to have a passion so great that you have to be completely silent about. Sometimes I feel like I’m going to spontaneously combust.

  27. Well, last time I looked…yes, I am a chick! Hahahaha! 😀

    I prefer to keep my screen name gender neutral for I find that I tend to be taken as more credible when I post and I found this out through online experience in prophetic communities.

    Actually, it is not at all rare for women to participate in prophetic communities you will just need to search more broadly for they indeed are out there. I just don’t have the time to get involved in all the discussions on various boards and must pick and choose what I find the most valuable to me. This is one of them that I choose to spend time at for I find it informative.

    However, I do find it more frustrating in my home church home communicating unsealed prophecy to my church leadership than I do online. The saying is true, a prophecy student is never accepted in their own church home! *sigh*

    Blessings!

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