A reader notified me of an article on Joel Richardson’s website, where Joel links to a news article from the Clarion Project website. Joel Richardson of course is, in my opinion, the main progenitor of the Islamic Antichrist theory. It was Richardson’s work dealing with the Islamic Antichrist that was a gateway for me to discover the Four Signposts. This new end-time Signpost interpretation of Daniel, if true, allows us to see today’s Mideast events both in terms of their true significance and in terms of whether they are part of the real timeline or if they are just smoke and mirrors.
The Signposts say that the theology that says nothing more prophetic must occur between now and the Tribulation or Rapture, is false. The First Signpost with Iraq’s leader and everything that has happened to Iraq has now passed into history. It was the wake up call to the start of the end-times. We are now waiting for the Second Signpost to begin – the outright invasion of the Middle East by Iran.
The article from Clarion Project is interesting because it involves almost all the nations that will play a role in the Second and Third Signposts. On the surface it seems like something is happening – that Islamic nations are finally organizing themselves into their roles for the end-times – and that Iran is finally working together with its old adversaries. But it is all just a façade – it is all fake.
The article says that a “strategic shift is taking place”; that Turkey and the Muslim Brotherhood, which are Sunni, are “making up with” Iran and Hezbollah, who are Shia.
There is an official in the Turkish government, Turkish intelligence chief Hakan Fidan, an Iranian sympathizer, who wants Turkey to make friends with Iran. The article goes on to say that because there seems to be a stalemate in the Syrian civil war, where Iran and Hezbollah support Assad, and Sunni Islamists such as the Muslim Brotherhood support the rebels. It also says that if the Turkish-backed Sunni Islamists and the Iranian-backed Shia Islamists could agree to a cease fire a formidable new Islamist bloc would form. But appearances can be deceiving. This is all wishful thinking.
Whoever would think that Turkey and Iran would “make up” is deceived. The Four Signposts of Daniel 7 and 8 still stand. Turkey and Iran are being pulled more and more into a Sunni vs. Shia War. Syria is merely a manifestation of this. This war between the two main sects of Islam has been going on for centuries.
And just as Iran is buying time by playing a game of international chess as it were in order to fool the west into allowing it to develop a nuclear arsenal, so Iran is fooling those in the Islamic world who would think Iran would be friends with Turkey. The Iranian regime and the IRGC very much want to spread their Revolution by chaos and war throughout the Middle East to bring about the Mahdi – the Christian’s Antichrist. The Second Signpost of Daniel 7 and 8 says this will happen.
The article also states at one point about the continuation of the Syrian civil war, “no one is gaining anything by its continuance.” I would have to disagree with this statement also. Iran gains from it. How? By buying time, keeping the Syrian nation in Iran’s fold until the time that it can execute its actual invasion of the Middle East, using Iraq, Syria and other nations under its thumb to easily take complete control.
Familiarize yourself with the Signposts, as written about in my book Daniel Revisited. Do not be deceived.
Categories: Signpost #2: Iran, The Signpost Perspective
THE FOUR SIGNPOSTS 
Yes its wishful thinking to believe Sunnis and Shias will “kiss and make up”.
When their scriptures teach deceit as acceptable when dealing with an enemy what else should we expect? Although these two are most likely not the King of the North and King of the South found in Daniel, this verse makes me chuckle, ” Both these kings’ hearts shall be bent on evil, and they shall speak lies at the same table” Dan 11:27. I am sure the coming years will be a contest of “who can out lie the others.” And we know who ultimately wins the deception contest.
I came across these Posts about WW3, what do you think about this scenario?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7791433-12/#post64744581
http://www.christianforums.com/t7777116-6/#post64725235
Hi Thomas,
Daniel 7 and 8 paint a picture that is fairly specific. Its all spelled out as the Four Signposts in my book. Using Revelation as a key, Daniel 7 and 8 tell us the countries that will do the various activities. That said, I skimmed your two links.
The first link speaks to the identity of the first horsman and then a scenario involving the other three horsemen in a major mideast war. The scenario as presented could not likely happen because Iraq is controlled by Iran, and American forces left at the end of 2011. In my book I show clear evidence why the first horseman is Saddam Hussein and how his career and acts fulfill the verse about the first horseman chillingly. I also show why there will be major war involving the three other horsemen but it is Iran itself starting a major Sunni-Shia War that is the second horseman. I encourage you to read the book. Daniel 7 and 8 are specific.
The second link speaks to armies form Iraq confronting israel. When the Second Signpost plays out, and the second horseman is doing his thing, armies from Iran will overrun much of the mideast. Israel will have to confront this but the invaders purpose is not to take out Israel but to bring about the Mahdi by causing chaos in the Muslim realm.
Mark
Hey Mark!
Are your ears burning yet? 🙂 Joel is talking about your signpost theory in his latest post! I know you guys are buddies and with all prophetic positions he agrees with a lot and disagrees with you in other aspects. But it is good to flush out all understanding and still have a gentlemen’s disagreement and in that respect, none of us have the complete prophetic picture yet because we are still not at the true end…but we are getting closer!
It is important we watch world events, study all Scripture relating to prophecy and most of all pray we understand what God is showing and telling us and then work together to help the Church prepare! Amen?
Blessings!
Amen! As you know Joel and I are two of the very few who even think the Antichrist will come out of Islam. That is a great place to begin.
Also Charles Missler and Joel Rosenberg also come to mind as now solidly in the Islamic End-Time paradigm who both are very prominent Prophetic Word commentators as well. I know many who follow and trust their End-Time commentaries. So this paradigm is growing and if correct, the understanding must continue to flow into church bodies so that they will not be caught sleeping as events warrant.
Blessings!
True. The idea that the Antichrist is to be Roman/European is being seen by more and more as being false.
Next right behind it is the idea that nothing more Biblically prophetic will happen until the Tribulation or Rapture – this is where the Signposts come in and show this old idea to be false as well.
Joel, our buddy, is really considering your signpost theory, Mark. Perry Brown has read Joel’s books and your book and have merged them into a fascinating perspective of his own. Joel is intrigued and admits further study is required in Daniel for analysis and for a dual fulfillment (ancient historical events and futurist possibilities like yours). He is right to be cautious and careful and be a very good Berean to study Scripture as he now is in a much more accountable and influential position than you are currently (but your time may be coming soon!), he being a NY Times best-selling author on a ground-breaking understanding of prophetic Scripture.
However, IF Iran does as you suggest in your first book…you will be immediately thrusted into the public/media spotlight and with good reason. If your second signpost comes to pass, especially during the blood-moon war tetrad or before Obama leaves office by 2017as the farthest date…then not only is your first signpost historically correct, we will then know what to expect next. Joel disagrees with this part of your book, about Iran being pre-tribulation seal #2 and the second horsemen riding upon the earth showing the second seal broken on the large scroll. We shall see…patience is required here.
But I am confused now. 😦
Modern understanding of prophetic Scripture has to deal with the well-known passage of Daniel 9:27 and the Angel Gabriel’s explanation to the prophet Daniel. It is well established that the “covenant of death” that unknowing Israel makes with the Antichrist will be made for a period of seven years (one week) according to the angel. The confirming of this covenant (whatever and whenever this is) officially commences Daniel 70th week and the final period of the close of the current age. This is well-known among prophecy students and if, as you suggest in your first book, that the first four signposts correlate with the first four seals of the large scroll, where does Daniel 9:27 fit into your scenario?
Blessings!
Daniel 9:27 describes the seventieth week, as you say, which most people (and myself) agree is the seven-year Tribulation. The Tribulation would start at the end of the Fourth Signpost (I talk about this at the end of chapter 12 in my first book). Where I assign the first four seals to the Four Signposts, the fifth seal occurs in the thick of the Tribulation.
Blessings
I understand…but I guess I wasn’t clear about my question on the placement of the “covenant of death” this “agreement” between Israel and AntiChrist and your seal analogy. If as you theorize your sign posts are the equivalent of the first four seals, then there is an agreement signed by Israel/Antichrist between the 4th and 5th seal? There must be for this to make sense, at least to me. Because the Great Tribulation begins 3.5 years after the “covenant” is signed when the AOD occurs in the rebuilt temple, stoping all sacrifices. Am I understanding you correctly? I’m trying not to presume here. Let me know if I’m on the right track here.
I should go back and see it you answer this question in your book. Frankly, I don’t remember. 😀
Yes you’re on the right track from my perspective. The seven-year period would begin sometime between the fourth and fifth seal being opened. One more thing, and not meaning to confuse you, but the covenant that is confirmed is said to be with many – it is never said in the Bible to be with Israel, nor is it to make a covenant to confirm one. One of the reasons to say its with Israel is because it is a convenient way to make a path for the third Temple. I believe that in the turmoil of the second and third signposts in the muslim world, Israel may very well have an opportunity to build the temple at that point. In my studies I found that the Mahdi will confirm the old Caliph covenant with all muslims – that may be the “confirming of the covenant with many” spoken of in the Bible.
You still have more explaining to do…I’m not yet convinced. Old prophetic teachings die hard…:)
I’m trying to be a good Berean like Joel and now the Prophet Isaiah comes to mind and a passage context comes into play and God speaking to His people Israel through Isaiah…here is the context from Isaiah 28 and the verses (vs. 15 and 18) that warn Israel not to make this security agreement. I find this passage extremely prophetic and applicable to Israel’s future (which is always the main focus of biblical prophecy anyway, imo). So here is the passage from Isaiah 28:14-19:
14 Listen to the Lord’s message,
you who make fun of the truth.
Listen, you who rule over these people in Jerusalem.
15 You brag, “We have entered into a covenant with death.
We have made an agreement with the grave.
When a terrible plague comes to punish us,
it can’t touch us.
That’s because we depend on lies to keep us safe.
We hide behind what isn’t true.”
16 So the Lord and King speaks. He says,
“Look! I am laying a stone in Zion.
It is a stone that has been tested.
It is the most important stone for a firm foundation.
The one who trusts in that stone will never be shaken.
17 I will use a measuring line to prove that you have not been fair.
I will use a plumb line to prove that you have not done what is right.
Hail will sweep away the lies you depend on to keep you safe.
Water will flood your hiding place.
18 Your covenant with death will be called off.
The agreement you made with the grave will not stand.
When the terrible plague comes to punish you,
you will be beaten down by it.
19 As often as it comes, it will carry you away.
Morning after morning, day and night,
it will come to punish you.”
If you understand this message,
it will bring you absolute terror.
So verses 15 and 18 say it twice, God warns Israel of the terrible, eventual consequences of signing this covenant and this has clear prophetic overtones for modern times. Israel will be in a terrible no-win fix and faced unknowingly with the “Enemy of her People” the Antichrist in an attempt to protect herself from the threat of extinction by the Islamic Caliphate and not relying on the God of Israel.
It may be true as you say that there is a Caliph covenant with fellow Muslims, but that is never the focus of the Bible or the prophetic Word of God. The focus of God is always His people and what affects them and the main concern prophetically. So to me, it is Israel that God is speaking of here in Daniel 9:27 not to sign this “covenant” with the Antichrist and his Islamic Caliphate (“the many”) who stand behind him. Otherwise, how are we to know “when” the 70th week of Daniel is to begin? We would have no way of confirming the most important last seven years to close out this age? I just don’t see any way around this.
We will have to see if your second sign post comes to fruition before the chance to build the Jewish temple is possible (I believe it could be initially a movable structure like a tabernacle myself so as to increase the likelihood of a place of Jewish worship becoming a reality and decrease it as a terrorist target). If so and a place of Jewish worship on the temple mount begins before the third sign post takes place would be astounding prophetically. It would be another “super sign” that God is signaling we are approaching one of the last stretches to Daniel’s 70th week. We shall see…a whole lot must transpire like your second signpost, perhaps? 🙂
Blessings!
P.S. Look forward to reading your new book, Mark!
Well Julie that is quite a post, and you remind me of some important points. These thoughts come to mind….
1) Keep in mind this whole “covenant” issue in Daniel 9:27 is the transition into the seven-year tribulation, regardless of the form it takes. And for the Signposts what form the covenant takes is not important. The Signposts are PRIOR to the Tribulation. This is the part that surprises people – and you’re right old teachings die hard. The idea that nothing more must happen prophetically until the Tribulation is just as wrong as the Antichrist being Roman.
2) One reason Joel is skeptical of the Signposts (and I hope I don’t get in trouble with him for saying this) he has never read my first book. He knows its conclusions and supports the idea that it needs to be investigated. But he doesn’t know all the history and scripture meshing together that creates the Signposts. Keep in mind Joel taught me as he did all of us about the Islamic Antichrist. I then stumbled onto the Signposts, talked about it with Joel and he said it should be published. It took years of scriptural and historical research to finish the work. He has told me he will read this new book, but the new book simply develops further the new teaching of the first book. Anyone can read the first book and still learn all the history, Scripture and events that back up the Signposts. All solid skeptics share one thing in common – they havent read the book. I have not heard a single true argument yet from anyone who has read it. Joel has said in his last post that the weakness of the Signposts is how specific it is. That is not a logical argument against it. The Scriptures tell us much detail about the Tribulation. It will tell us more detail as we get closer to it. Likewise, the Scriptures were always there telling us of the Signposts – we didnt see the detail or understand the detail until we got close to the day.
3) Daniel 7, 8, 11, and Revelation 6, with Revelation 12 and 17 all come together and make sense together within the Signpost theory, and it jives with past history, and it jives with events today! Any other Scripture that comes along may or may not support it, just as Scripture may or may not support the Tribulation. Why? Because the Scripture is either talking about the Tribulation or something else. I have told many readers that just as I discovered the Signposts after reading Joel’s work, if anyone else discovers more upon reading the Signposts – go for it – expound some more new interpretation in these last times. It is not given to one person to learn all there is from God.
4) I don’t know for sure what Isaiah 28 applies to. The covenant may be in the end times or it may have been in the times ancient Israel was disobedient. Be careful because you can’t take one Scripture, think it doesn’t fit to an interpretation of other passages like Daniel 7 and 8 and then just throw out the interpretation. Isaiah 28 may indeed have nothing to do with the Signposts (which is what I believe). Remember too, to toss an interpretation just because a single passage doesn’t seem to fit, then tosses out many points of Scripture and history working in tandem.
5) You’ve read the book. Think about how clearly Daniel 7 and 8 support an end-time fulfillment (re-read chapters 5 and 6). See how Iraq wonderfully fulfilled the first signpost in chapter 9. It just seems to me that you’re letting people who have not read the book and not familiar with all the supporting evidence convince you that it all counts for nothing. The new book adds to this all of the shocking things going in Iran that in every way support the coming Second Signpost – the new chapter 10.
Blessings
Mark
Responding to your above numbered points:
1) Agree that your signpost interpretation does not address the initial beginning of the 70th week of Daniel or what transpires during this prophetic week. Scores of authors have beaten this to death! Nor do you address the issue of what or how the covenant comes to be in Daniel 9:27 in your first book. (I checked.) Your message in the Hidden in Plain Sight premiere book relates to “sign-events” to watch for indicating that God’s sovereign control of his world is his doing moving us to the 70th week of Daniel…in staging steps…or your lingo, “signposts.” I think I’m right here.
2) You are right. Joel did not specifically state he has read your first book. But he is warming up to the idea of your signpost position and Perry Brown, a Joel’s Trumpet poster, was very persuasive to Joel. Perry has read Joel’s books and your book and merged them together for his own purposes. Fascinating thread! If you get a chance to read the entire thread, it was a very good discussion, it’s under 3 scenarios of unfolding prophecy. Understand that your signpost interpretation; if true, (especially if the second signpost comes to pass as discussed in your first book) would turn the prophetic world on it ear. Just like Joel had a hard time getting the Church’s attention and/or media to take him seriously until radical Islam made more sense than the discredited European-Roman theory held for so long by the Church and still is in many parts of the world. I first met Joel at his second taping of his prophecy conference in 2009 when he was relatively unknown tho’ he had some published works. I wish I could say the conference was at full capacity. Alas, it was not and not even close. But what I learned there shocked me and I was hooked. I wrote like a manic until my hand hurt. I try to see Joel every time he comes into town and when his documentary is released I’m going to try and see if my church will let him come and speak on spreading the gospel to Muslims. We’ll see if this is in God’s purpose and timing. If your second signpost comes to pass before Obama leaves the presidency in 2017…Joel will be calling you. And so will a lot of other people and your posters will be sending you emails. You just might have to quit your day job. 🙂
3) The reason for my question regarding Daniel 9:27 was if the seals in Revelation are being broken as you suggest in your book, I was wondering where the Daniel 9:27 fit? Joel, I think, has the same classical prophetic understanding as I do that it is the “covenant” signed by Israel and Antichrist that commences the seals of the large scroll being broke in Revelation. Now, you come along and say, “Well, guess what? Maybe that large scroll is already in the LORD’s hand and He is breaking seals.” Do you see why Joel and many others are skeptical? Actually, it is understandable and you are facing the same resistance Joel did when he proposed a new understanding contrary to the well entrenched Hal Lindsey theory of a Roman Antichrist. So you are following in his footsteps, oddly enough. It was always covenant is signed first, then the large seals of the scroll are broken, then the temple, then the AOD desecrates the temple, GT, Second Coming, God’s Wrath, Millennial Kingdom, Eternity or close to that scenario any way. Now, you come along and say,”Ummm, maybe not.” Not easy for us prophecy geeks to be trustful of “new interpretations” but that second signpost would change everything…when and if it comes to pass. Time right now is on your side. God is sovereign. He has the final word. 🙂
4) Isaiah 28:15,18 seems to foreshadow prophetically Daniel 9:27 and why it was brought up and questioned the covenant placement in timing with your four seals, IF seals are supposedly breaking according to your view. This is my classic understanding of these two verses and since you said you believe the covenant happens AFTER the four signposts, then you answered my question.
5) Indeed, I have your book and read it. You do make a strong case for the modern nations of the Middle East to be a dual fulfillment of Daniel 7,8. I do think Joel will come your way eventually in his own time and study. He is a good Berean. We all should seek to be good Bereans and carefully examine the eternal Word of God in all it richness in full measure. It takes a lifetime of Bible study and still there is much we do not know, even prophetically today. The joy of being constantly in the Word and doing God’s will. Amen?
Blessings and Happy New Year 2014!
I think our major prophetic focus for now should be the coming Persian(Iranian) invasion and conquest of much of the Middle East. To my knowledge, Mark Davidson is the only prophecy expert who has asserted that the Daniel 8 invasion is not historical but still to come. Mark’s focus is on events leading up to the time of Jacob’s trouble and if the Signpost paradigm proves true, he will have made a huge contribution to the study of prophecy. I believe the LORD will lead His people one step at a time with the momentum and excitement building to a crescendo which will monumentally confirm His prophetic Word and bless His children. Shalom FS
Julie,
I agree completely with your points above. And yes the new order I am proposing is 4 seals, then the covenant and start of the Tribulation, and then the remaining seals. Also in putting out the next message (Signposts) requiring Joel’s message (Islamic antichrist) to understand, I’ve felt at several times that I’m walking the same development path that Joel has.
Mark
Hi Mark and good4u,
For the past three years, I have been studying the book of Daniel. It was in mid April 2011 that I was exposed to the ‘Islamic end-time paradigm’. I read books on the subject written by Joel, Walid, Jack Smith and others. I came to understand that this was the most correct end-time paradigm as related to the Antichrist’s ideology, religion, economic and political system. It was like a new and huge window was open for understanding of many, many prophetic and eschatological passages from the Bible. It was the major piece that was missing to build the big picture of the end-time puzzle. I then began to understand more about the book of Daniel. An to be honest, at the time I had a feeling that some of Daniels prophecies (mostly of Chapter 8 and 11) could also have a fulfilment or application to Islamic history, with all the caliphates, empires, sultanates, etc. It really did not fit. Then I came across ‘Hidden in Plain Sight’, and as if another window was open. Then after studying more of the book of Daniel, I realized that not only chapter 8 had an end-time fulfilment or application, but chapters 7, 11 (the whole chapter) and perhaps chapter 2, as well.
Mark, the issue that I disagree in your book is about the opening of the four seals of Revelation 6 as corresponding to the events in Daniel 7 and 8. That’s OK. I love your book, and anxious to read the new version. I am cheering for you.
I have some strong reasons why I believe that the seals of the scroll have not been open yet by Jesus. I believe this is still to be in the future, as within the tribulation period (prophetic 7 year period). One reason is the fact that I believe the bowls of incense (Rev. 5:8), which are the prayers of the saints, are not full yet. The prayer movement in the Church has much to grow yet. I believe that when God sees that much prayer is being offered according to His own standards (we will never know this for sure) is when He will give the scroll to the Lamb for Him to open the seals.
Another reason is the timing of court scene of judgment in Heaven that Daniel saw in Dan. 7:9-12, 26). The timing seems to indicate that the court scene (thrones being set together with the Throne of the Ancient of Days) is connected to the timing of the forth beast (Dan 7:8-9 and Dan 7:25-26), and not the three previous beasts. I equate this court scene in Heaven that Daniel saw the same court scene in Heaven that John saw in Revelation 4 and 5. Thus, the giving of the scroll and, consequently, the opening of the seals happens in connection with the timing of the fourth beast and little horn (Daniel 7) and the Beast of Revelation.
Other than that, not only do I believe the signpost theory to be very sound scripturally, but also very possible according to current socio-political trends in the Middle East.
Blessings,
Perry Brown
Hi Perry,
Good to hear from you brother. Your experience learning this new end-time paradigm is similar to mine – like a new huge window as you say that was opened.
Just to reiterate for readers, the reasons as you may remember from the book why I believe the four horsemen are associated with the Four Signposts are –
1) The fifth seal is in the thick of the Great Tribulation, the first four seals are before it;
2) The Signposts will be internal to the Islamic Realm – one quarter of the earth – and the four horsemen are specifically only given authority over a quarter of the earth;
3) The description of the first horseman seems to be fulfilled beautifully and exactly by Saddam Hussein (the first signpost is Iraq and the first horseman is the leader of the country of the first signpost, i.e. Iraq);
4) But we won’t witness the most powerful reason until the Iranian invasion – where the second horseman starts the second signpost – and the second horseman took peace of mind and stability from the earth as it says in Revelation 6. All four horsemen have authority over a quarter of the earth, but only the second one takes peace away. Yeah, the world may be a bit crazy now and held together by hope, fake fiat money, and duct tape, but wait until you see the mood of the world change with the second horseman. That event may convince you.
The throne scene in Daniel 7 occurs after the fourth beast has the little horn come out, and pluck up the other three (which is the fourth signpost). The little horn speaking great boasts and making war on the saints is the Tribulation. Then, the throne scene occurs after that, after Christ’s return.
I find one of the things that is hard to wrap one’s head around after learning the Signposts, is how much the way the world works will change upon the start of the Second Signpost. The loss of the U.S. petrodollar, the tremendous hike in the gas price, and tight supplies, will turn this modern, industrial, U.S.-dollar-led world upside-down.
Be blessed,
Mark
Perry,
I have enjoyed your comments both here and at Joel Richardson’s site. Your insights are most enlightening. I always try to hold my opinions about prophecy loosely because they change. Only ten years ago I was in the “Late Great Planet Earth” camp. But Daniel is being unsealed.
IMO, the court scene in Daniel more closely fits other scenes with the 24 elders in Revelation, particularly those in Chapter 7 (the breaking of the seventh seal) and Chapter 11 (the sounding of the seventh trumpet) and Chapter 19 (the return of Christ and defeat of the Antichrist). I view the 7th seal, trumpet and bowl to all occur simultaneously with the return of Christ. All three of these Revelation passages might be other views of the Daniel 7 passage where the books were opened and the little horn is judged. Please notice the great multitude present at each scene.
If true, that makes the Revelation 4 and 5 scene with the elders earlier than the Daniel 7 scene. This is totally congruent with the unsealing of the first four seals of the scroll prior to the tribulation.
As for the bowls of incense held by the elders being a sign of the timing of the seals breaking, I don’t see the connection that you do with any current Church movement or a certain amount of prayer triggering the seals breaking. Rather I believe God has a divine timetable and when the “fullness of time” had come, the first seal was broken. This may have coincided with a certain amount of prayer over the ages of God’s people, but IMO it was God who caused the amount of prayer to coincide with the seal breaking. Not vice versa.
Perry, Have you also looked at Zechariah? His vision in Chapters 4,5,6 in particular seem to be another view of several Revelation events. Chapter six mentions the four colored horses and the four winds of heaven which bring them out. In Daniel 7 it is the same 4 winds of heaven that bring forth the beasts. I’m feel fairly sure this is a link between the horsemen and the beasts and a link between the Revelation horsemen and the signposts. I’d like to hear your opinion if you have considered this.
Jim,
Thanks brother.
In the book of revelation, the breaking of the 7 seals of the scroll by the Lamb (6:1; 6:3; 6:5a; 6:7; 6:9-11; 6:12a; 8:1), the half-hour silence together with the offering of incense at the altar (8:1-6) and the sounding of 6 trumpets by the angels (8:7a; 8:8a; 8:10a; 8:12a; 9:1a; 9:13a) are a continuation of the heavenly scene of Revelation 4 and 5. Its one whole heavenly scene. The Lamb does not wait for some days, months or years to break another seal. The Lamb breaks the seals on after the other. It is the earthly consequences of the breaking of each seal that can have time in between. Same the sounding of the trumpets. The angels do not wait for days, months, years to sound their trumpets, they do It on after the other, in sequence. Again, it’s the earthly consequences of the sounding of each trumpet that can have time in between. If you noticed, my only exception is with the sounding of the seventh trumpet (11:15-19). I believe that there will be some time gap between the sounding of the sixth and seventh trumpet.
I hope you understand what I am implying here. When I say the breaking of the seal above, I am not talking about the consequences on earth (war, famine, economic crises, persecution, cosmic disturbances, etc.), rather the actual breaking of the seal on the scroll by Jesus in heaven. Same with the trumpets.
Now, regarding the heavenly scene that Daniel saw in Dan 7:9-12, 26), I view this as the same heavenly scene in Revelation 4 and 5, and the other verses I mentioned above. Both are the same future heavenly scene when the court will be seated in connection to the Throne of the Father to judge. The thrones that were set up in Dan 7:9 are the same 24 thrones that are seated by the 24 elders that John saw in Rev 4 and 5. And the heavenly scene of Dan 7:13-14 corresponds to the heavenly scene of the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15-19.
I cannot see where it could be different. The books of Daniel and Revelation are complementary to each other. It is intended to have harmony.
Regarding my comment about the bowls of incense (prayers of the saints) and the prayer movement, I believe to have some connection. Yes, of course, God has a perfect divine timetable. It’s on His terms not on ours. My connection here would be the same kind of connection of the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom as a witness to all nations with the time of the end.
The reason I mentioned this is to make a point that I believe that the first four seals of Rev 6 wave not been broken yet. According to Marks book, the seals would have start breaking in the late 1970’s or beginning of 1980’s. Although, I believe that the signposts as related to the events marked in Daniel 7and 8 did start in those years (the lion, Iraq and Saddam Hussein). My point was to say that the prayers of the saints in those years have not reached the fullness. Even today (year 2014) the prayers have not reached fullness, but much more than in the seventies and eighties.
Regarding the book of Zachariah, I have done some study, but not as much as Daniel. I do want to study it more. The 8 night visions that Zachariah had and recorded in Zach 1-6 were very relevant to Jewish community in the late sixth century BC as related to the restoration of Jerusalem and the temple. However, these visions also have an end-time application and are very well connected to the book of Revelation. There is some kind of correspondence between the four horsemen/horses in Revelation 6 and the horsemen/horses in Zachariah 1 and 6. The assurance of the restoration of Jerusalem and the temple in Zachariah and the assurance of the restoration of the earthly Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem in Revelation. Many other as well, such as the two witnesses in Rev 11 with lampstand and two olive trees. I believe that Zach 5, the flying scroll and the woman sitting in the ephah, have connection with Islam.
Blessings,
Perry Brown
Perry thanks for your comments. I like to think and ponder new ideas. I had never considered that the seals of Revelation could be unsealed at the same time, yet their consequences be at another time. I will have to think and pray about that before responding.
As for the “heavenly scene” in Daniel 7, you divide them into two scenes, I do not for several reasons. First look at verses 9 and 10. This is the opening of the court scene. The end of verse 10 states that the books were opened. This only happens when judgment is ready to fall. Obviously this cannot occur prior the Day of the Lord. Then verse 11 states he continued to watch until the beast was slain. This also implies action on the Day of the Lord. Finally in verse 26 it states that the court will sit and his (the AC’s) power will be taken away. Again all of this occurring on the Day of the Lord; all of these actions appear to be a continuous scene.
The clear reading of the passage implies one scene. What reason might you say there are two? Daniel and Revelation are complementary but each contains information the other does not. To my reading Revelation 4-5 is material not covered in Daniel. If there is something I’m missing please share it.
BTW, the flying scroll of Zech 5, written on both sides, is a scroll of judgment and might just be the one in Revelation 4-5 and the woman might be the harlot. Zechariah is a fascinating book.
I’m not one to usually get involved in Blogs, but I must say I have truly enjoyed the discussions that have been going on. I am amazed at the amount of study and knowledge of the Scriptures each of you has. I’ve known Mark for quite some time and his passion for the Word of God and sharing the truth is evident. Each of you make some tremendous points and yet you are willing to listen to the others view points. That is good. Remember that God has kept these things sealed up for a few thousand years and I don’t think He is going to dump the whole load of bricks on us at once.
I believe Mark has been privileged by God to see the connections of Scripture, History and the events that have been and are taking place in the Middle East so that he can prepare the Church for such a time as this. The key is that we are watching, waiting on the Lord, and most importantly asking Him what would you have me do Lord. How can I take this information and use it for your glory that all the Nations may know you are the one true God.
I know that this is Mark’s heart; not just to write a book about the end times, but to make sure the Church is busy and active doing what it has been called to do because the time is short.
Blessings to each of you Brothers and Sisters